Tuesday, August 25, 2009

Design (Week 25)

I would like to take a momentary break from the Bible and historical evidence. I want to revisit the idea of design, because I think my treatment of this fundamental argument was too brief… we were flying through the arguments early on, but intelligent design (if true) is the characteristic that separates the theistic universe from the deistic (causer would be involved at the inception only) or materialistic (no intelligence necessary) universe models. The arguments I gave previously focused more on cosmological probabilities in sticking with the prior theme, but I’d like to delve into the arena of the theories for first life and the data contained within each life form. Evolutionary theory does not offer an explanation for first life that is accepted by an abundance of scientists. As Jerry Coyne, author of Why Evolution is True noted, “…we have only a foggy window into the earliest and most interesting developments in evolution, and none at all into the origin of life.”

Intelligent design has a huge hurdle to overcome before the race even begins: the term “Intelligent Design” speaks to the conclusion of the theory and not to the science behind it; as such, it’s easy for someone who is not an ID proponent to scoff at the notion before even seeing the evidence (reactions just from my own audience included “Bwahahahaha!” and “…the entire premise of ID is that there is nothing to study – God did it….”). Evolutionary theory has met similar resistance in religious communities primarily because it is viewed as a sort of no-need-for-God theory. I think the attitudes on both sides (not to say that the theories are necessarily at odds… I get to that momentarily) lead to a sort of intellectual dishonesty. Certainly, many Christians are guilty of dismissing evolutionary theory without knowing the scientific discoveries that have had a profound impact over the past several decades. I would argue, too, that many evolutionary theorists consider ID as being a sort of capitulation by theists who can’t explain certain phenomena and thereby just insert God into the equation. Both parties, I think, are missing out on the opportunity for a good scientific discussion. Evolutionary theory has come a long way since Darwin, and ID has made huge strides since Paley. There is evidence for both theories, and I think that the scientific approach for both theories is very similar. This is the notion I want to explore over the next few weeks.

There is an understandable predilection for scientists to look for materialistic causes. After all, the explanation “God did it” seems to many tantamount to throwing up one’s hands and giving up on the problem. ID, however, is not necessarily an enterprise that seeks to justify one’s religious convictions; rather, it is a natural extrapolation from the evidence at hand. Evidence for ID has religious implications, but it is not necessary to presume God in order to look for intelligence. Similarly, it is not necessary to posit a materialist universe in order to form the theory of evolution.

Like evolutionary theory, ID seeks to draw on what we know and to extrapolate this to the fundamental properties of earthly beings. In its simplest form, ID theory says simply that the data contained within a living being is indicative of a designer. Often, ID proponents will say something like, “If you look at the Grand Canyon, you will see a beautiful landscape that appears to have been created by the natural forces of wind and water; on the other hand, if you look at Mount Rushmore, you can note clear elements of design. This evidence, to any unbiased onlooker, obviously points to an intelligent sculptor, or designer.” This is a nice notion and one that I have used in the past (maybe even in a previous blog… I don’t recall), but it is not sufficient to a scientist to simply say, “Look at this thing. It sure looks designed to me.” The clearest evidence of design, I think, is not formation, but information.

One thing that I want to make clear is that I don’t believe evolution to be the anti-God argument that some have made it out to be. I do think that, as Richard Dawkins made clear, it enables atheists to have a scientific backing of their own beliefs – that if evolution is indeed a wholly natural process, there is no need for theistic explanations; however, I don’t believe that – even if the general premise of inter-species changes over time is true – this somehow negates God. Even the most devout evolutionist would likely acknowledge that there are holes in our knowledge of how these changes take place in a relatively short amount of time. So, my focus will not be in attacking evolutionary theory; rather, I would prefer to focus on the issue at hand: do we have evidence to indicate that organisms were designed?

If evolutionary theorists like Coyne cannot offer a sufficient explanation for first life, should the scientific community really look upon ID with such disdain? Who is throwing up their hands? It seems to me that by making an assumption that first life could have occurred via natural processes without first formulating a reasonable explanation, scientists are essentially yielding to the notion “…that there is nothing to study.” I personally find it a tad unusual that a group could be so militantly opposed to a theory when attempts to formulate materialistic theories have fallen woefully short of substantive proof. Instead, I propose simply that we take a look at the evidence behind ID, and view the data thoughtfully and with detachment. As Darwin put it, “A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere heart of stone.” One doesn’t have to presume intelligence to find it, and one shouldn’t disregard intelligence if the evidence is plain. Chance simply does not provide a sufficient explanation for the formation of life, and the idea that natural selection preceded life is incongruous.

Over the next few weeks, I’ll be delving a bit deeper into the principles behind ID theory, but I’ll also be equating the scientific methods to those utilized by proponents of evolutionary theory. I would like to give a special thanks to Skyhook for providing me with materials for comparison. This will give us a good grounding for discussion.

20 comments:

Skyhook said...

“A prevalence of spontaneous new life and/or macroevolution would also be evidence against God.”
-Randy (2/24/09)

“I don’t believe that – even if the general premise of inter-species changes over time is true – this somehow negates God.”
-Randy (8/25/09)

Steven Stark said...

Randy,

I look forward to reading your further posts on the subject. It may very well be that there is ID behind the universe. But I don’t think we can make a compelling case for it logically. Here are a few of my thoughts on “ID and first life” going in.

Randy - “It seems to me that by making an assumption that first life could have occurred via natural processes without first formulating a reasonable explanation, scientists are essentially yielding to the notion “…that there is nothing to study.”

Is not science the study of the natural?

As to gaps in our knowledge, it seem to me there are three good ways to view them:

1. Just like many, many things that used to have supernatural explanations (lightning, the building of the pyramids, etc.) we will discover a natural explanation in time.

2. We can never know this, but let’s assume that we never figure out the “explanation” for first life. This still does not mean that the explanation is supernatural. There may be natural aspects of the universe that are fundamentally outside our ability to understand. Stating that the supernatural is the most likely is to assume that we are even capable of comprehending the entirety of the natural universe - which seems unlikely to me.

3. If we decide to favor a supernatural explanation, then who’s to say which one we should favor? Yahweh created the universe. Allah created the Universe. Baal, El, Zeus, etc. If I remember correctly, Randy set out to put some parameters around what we should believe about a God “outside the universe”, but I don’t find these parameters compelling because we are not in a position to comment on them. Randy’s reasons seemed to be assuming that whatever is outside the universe is the opposite of whatever is inside it. Finite-Infinite, Temporal-Eternal, Immaterial-Material, etc. But why? Perhaps everything outside this universe is more ephemeral than everything inside. Perhaps there is time and it moves faster than here. Perhaps there is another “outside the universe” outside of that “outside the universe”, etc. Once we entertain supernatural notions, predictability and regularity are not items we can appeal to. We are left with faith and trust. Fair enough, I think them highly important, but we shouldn’t mistake faith and trust for a belief that we can hold with a high degree of certainty.

thanks,

Steven

Burk said...

Hi, Randy-

It is hard to believe that you are taking up ID, which has been so discredited. As you probably know and in all seriousness, there really is no research program going on with respect to ID- a few press releases from the discovery institutue, and a couple crackpot professors who publish papers only tangentially touching on ID, and not supporting it in any substantive way, indeed even detracting from its credibility.

"' ... the past several decades ..." You have got to be kidding. The intellectual world took up evolution wholesale after reading Darwin. The case was quite compelling at that point. That the last few decades have piled on more evidence is icing on the cake, but hardly changes either the clear evidence already present or the basic logic.

"If evolutionary theorists like Coyne cannot offer a sufficient explanation for first life, should the scientific community really look upon ID with such disdain?"

That's a funny one. What would you regard as a 'sufficient' explanation? One that says "God did it"? That is totally sufficient- given the premise, all consequences flow like manna from heaven. Only the premise can't and hasn't been given, and real scientists are diligently studying the origin of life using premises with actual validity- chemistry, astronomy, etc. And they are doing great work.

It is not implausible at all to hypothesize that life began on earth out of purely chemical causes. But scientists have high enough standards to recognize this as a set of hypotheses, unlikely to advance to a serious theory any time soon, since so much of the evidence is gone, and an event that may have happened only one time in all history may well be impossible to restruct from our far remove.

"Chance simply does not provide a sufficient explanation for the formation of life, and the idea that natural selection preceded life is incongruous."

Sorry, that immediately discredits your labored claims of disinterestedness and non-presumption in the sentences before. How about stating the evidence before you jump to the conclusion?

Anyhow, I look forward to your efforts!

Steven Stark said...

I erased this comment from the last post as it's more relevant here:

Philosophical problems with arguments for ID


If there is ID behind the universe then God has obviously created a world of causal relationships. It’s ironic to look for proof of him in spots where the system does not work - where causal relationships allegedly break down. ID seems to suggest that the natural, “created” order did not work well enough to create first life or humans, so supernatural “additions” were inserted into the universe. In this case I can see at least three options for interpretation:

1. God made mistakes in creation.

2. God created the world with no thoughts of life and later changed His mind.

3. He intentionally left humans hard-to-find clues (these “breakdowns” or gaps) to induce His existence. However God seems to have failed since many, many scientists do not think these breakdowns are good enough evidence to surmise His existence. Plus why would God chose this route instead of direct, unmistakable revelation to each individual person?

These are just some of the philosophical problems I see with attempting to make reason-based arguments for ID.

thanks again,
Steven

Randy said...

Evidence, yes. I think I made that clear in the comments section from which you pulled this quote. Obviously, it's evidence; else it would not be incorporated into so very many atheist materials. Whether this evidence can lead us to the reasonable conclusion that God does not exist is a wholly separate question.

I liken this notion to that of a criminal trial in which an attorney presents clear evidence that John Doe had a deep hatred for a murder victim. This would be evidence to John Doe's guilt; however, if additional physical evidence was offered that clearly placed another person at the scene, it would not be reasonable to conclude that John Doe was a murderer based solely on the aforementioned evidence.

From this very same comment section:

"Regarding "evidence against God," the point would be that if everything of this universe seemed to have a naturalistic explanation, that would have to count as evidence against God... proof, no. But evidence."

Randy said...

Burk,

It might be a good idea to talk to Skyhook about recent developments in evolutionary theory. My point was simply that additional evidence has been offered. No current theorists are touting solely the efforts of Darwin. His theory had some big gaps to fill. I was being complimentary to evolutionary theory. Try not to read too much into what I'm saying... I'm being rather straightforward.

I'm not sure how many times I have to reiterate that I have no intention of arguing against evolution on the whole. It's a sound theory, and one that warrants further study. Since I haven't yet presented a single bit of evidence for or against ID, I have to again implore you not to argue against what you think I'll say. Your comment from the last post tells me that you have not acquainted yourself with ID theory as your characterization of it was rather off the mark. I ask simply that you look at the evidence presented (by me... not by various graduates of Wheaton College who are ready to take on the whole world with irrelevant comparisons) and form your own conclusions. What I am gathering thus far is that your conclusions are going to drive your view of the data. If I am willing to take an objective look at evolution, I think it's fair to ask that you do the same of ID.

And one more time... I haven't argued for or against the development of species over time. There is some neat data available and a lot of interesting theories from biological scientists that I think are worth exploring. Theories regarding the development of information, however, are rather lackluster. I think any honest evolutionary theorist would agree with me here... Coyne does. As such, there is one area that evolutionary theory has not really touched upon. Let's look, then, at a theory that does touch upon this idea. Seems a rather innocent request to me....

Burk said...

"Theories regarding the development of information, however, are rather lackluster. I think any honest evolutionary theorist would agree with me here... Coyne does."

Wow- this I will indeed look forward to hearing about.

Skyhook said...

Randy,

Comparing “evidence against” and “somehow negates” looks to be a waste of time. The posts speak for themselves.

“ …if everything of this universe seemed to have a naturalistic explanation…”

What would this look like to you? To me, it would look like it does now. We have not yet sought explanations for everything, but of the set of things in which we have sought an explanation, it seems that all of the consistent, useful, predictable, parsimonious, testable / falsifiable, and based on empirical observation explanations are 100% all natural. The only places where it seems that we do not have a natural explanation (or any good explanation) are areas of high complexity, subjects that have low relevance to homo sapiens’ immediate survival and reproduction, and are distal in time and space. The naturalistic world view accounts for this very nicely, how does the theistic world view account for this? Why is it that your god is found in the gaps and why are the gaps in areas of high complexity or so far away in space/time? Why Randy, why? I want to know.

Speaking of court cases, courtroom evidence, and the like… have you had a chance to view Kitzmiller v. Dover?

I am not sure what I would have to tell Braun about recent developments. Perhaps you are referring to the comments section in week 9 where I talk about how “truly beneficial for society” and “food chain” are antiquated notions and then go on to explain how the theory of evolution by natural selection has gained better explanations over time without necessarily throwing out what was gained up to that point. If this is the case, I suspect that Braun is quite familiar with the Modern Evolutionary Synthesis and probably does not need to hear it from me.

I am going to finish this comment with a quote from one of Darwin’s contemporary critics. Dennett often uses this critical quote as an example of somebody, though incredulous, understood what Darwin was saying.

“In the theory with which we have to deal, Absolute Ignorance is the artificer; so that we may enunciate as the fundamental principle of the whole system, that, IN ORDER TO MAKE A PERFECT AND BEAUTIFUL MACHINE, IT IS NOT REQUISITE TO KNOW HOW TO MAKE IT. This proposition will be found, on careful examination, to express, in condensed form, the essential purport of the Theory, and to express in a few words all Mr. Darwin’s meaning; who, by a strange inversion of reasoning, seems to think Absolute Ignorance fully qualified to take the place of Absolute Wisdom in all of the achievements of creative skill.”
-MacKenzie, 1868

I look forward to your presentation of the evidence.

Randy said...

Kitzmiller v. Dover was the product a thoroughly substandard and poorly-timed argument by the folks in Dover. Their reasoning for allowing ID was (paraphrase... can't remember verbatim) to repay Jesus for the price he paid for us. Any judge would have tossed that one out. They were basically championing against the non-establishment clause. You'll find that they were backed by almost no one including the aforementioned Discovery Institute (note the basic idea behind the "various graduates of Wheaton College who are ready to take on the whole world with irrelevant comparisons" comment).

I can't argue with each of the things you believe I'm going to say. I laid out this foundational post primarily to discover what the major prejudices were against ID. I'll try to address your concerns in my posts; however, most of your concerns are unwarranted. ID theory is not an of-the-gaps theory. It is good to know that I will likely be presenting ideas that are heretofore unseen.

Steven Stark said...

"ID theory is not an of-the-gaps theory."

I look forward to reading some theories. Although when speculating about the possibility of intelligence greater than ours, it seems difficult to postulate about its motives and methods with any degree of probability.

Skyhook said...

Randy, your logic works about as well as a 1982 Chrysler made on a Friday. I have been arguing with what you have posted this week and weeks prior. ID may or may not be a theory of the gaps, but I have found 25 weeks of 52 blogs to be largely a god of the gaps argument. Perhaps you disagree; that is fine, we are all entitled to our opinion. In no way have I presented a catalogue of the ID arguments I have seen.

Serenity now.

Randy said...

...insanity later?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

-R

Skyhook said...

I can't blame you, the blog even has it own Braun.

Skyhook said...

As you enjoy Chapter 4 of Why Evolution is True keep in mind the agreed upon line Vernicus drew in the sand.

Vernicus:“…would it be reasonable to show the genetic, logistic, and physical impossibility of the great flood and Noah’s ark as sufficient evidence against the absolute and divine truth of the Pentateuch and in turn the Bible as a whole?”

Randy: Yes.

Vernicus said...

Can it be evidence time now?

Randy said...

Ridiculously hectic weekend. Post forthcoming... probably tomorrow.

Skyhook said...

Randy said: “You'll find that they were backed by almost no one including the aforementioned Discovery Institute (note the basic idea behind the "various graduates of Wheaton College who are ready to take on the whole world with irrelevant comparisons" comment).”

The primary witness for the defense was none other than Michael Behe. As far as I can tell, he is one of the major players in the ID movement (along with Dembski and Meyer, who both seem to be quite ready to use Behe’s work in their examples) and he is not affiliated with Wheaton College. He was thoroughly trounced in cross-examination and by the judge.

Steve Fuller was also a witness for the defense. He was charged with defending the scientific status of intelligent design and gave historical arguments. Best I can tell, he did not graduate or teach at Wheaton College.

Scott Minnish was also called by the defense to testify. Scott has co-authored papers with Meyer and is a fellow at the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture. True, the DI went so far as to ask Behe and Minnish not to testify, after the DI’s initial involvement in the case, nonetheless, a DI fellow was one of the key witnesses for the defense.

These witnesses were the ones charged with showing the science of ID, none of them are graduates from Wheaton and one is a fellow at the Discovery Institute. None of them did a good enough job to hold up under cross-examination. Perhaps your quick dismissal of the Dover case is unwarranted?

Skyhook said...

Oops, I left out the fact that the primary witness for the defense in the Kitzmiller v. Dover trial, Michael Behe, is a Senior Fellow at the Discovery Institute.

Randy said...

Behe testified. If he had his druthers, Dover would have been victorious. He also thought that the case was a bad idea. The presentation of the case was all wrong, but it was also very public. From the perspective of an ID theorist, the very worst thing that could happen would be to have the case presented poorly for the wrong reasons, and to provide no compelling evidence. If Dover was to go down, at least someone took it upon himself to try to give credence to the argument... even if the case was ill-advised.

Discovery was very open about its decision not to endorse the move by Dover. You're welcome to read into Behe's actions, but I don't see that he did anything wrong.

Skyhook said...

Randy, I am not saying that Behe knowingly did something wrong. I am saying that your “backed by almost no one” statement is BS.

Why didn’t Behe provide the compelling evidence that was needed? Let me guess, he was saving it for next week?

;)